Breakfast on Planet X: The Aronofsky Debate- DIO vs. DEE II Breakfast on Planet X: The Aronofsky Debate- DIO vs. DEE II
DIO VS DEE II: Darren Aronofsky- Genius Director or Arthouse Charlatan? This debate has been gestating for a while. It started here and continued... Breakfast on Planet X: The Aronofsky Debate- DIO vs. DEE II
DIO VS DEE II: Darren Aronofsky- Genius Director or Arthouse Charlatan?

This debate has been gestating for a while. It started here and continued here: BOPX member Detective Dee called (in)famous director Darren Aronofsky (Pi, Requiem for a Dream, The Fountain, The Wrestler, Black Swan, Noah) an “overrated director” and “charlatan”, which provoked Ronnie James Dio, also BOPX member and fan of Aronofsky’s work, to call him out for a “Thunderdome”-style duel.

Now the time has come.

Is Aronofsky masterfully blending genres or does he just throw them into the blender?
Is The Fountain about eternal boredom or eternal love? Is Noah bombastic or just pompous? Is Black Swan an exercise in kitsch or a character study?

Wait Noah more to find out. Is Dee right with the assumption that Aronofsky’s creative Fountain has run dry or will this be his Requiem when Dio, who has Swan revenge, Wrestles him without showing any Pi-ty?

Also: Emma Watson gets a mention. And Mila Kunis. (*Click Bait)

Schedule:

0:00: Introduction– “How it began”
2:36: Handicapping by Slate Fistcrunch (predicts Dee as winner)
4:20: DEBATE
49:44: Handicapping by I-am-Better (predicts Dio as winner)

Referee: BOPX member I-am-Better.

But most important: Use our POLL and make your voice heard! Support the contestant you agree with! Vote!

UPDATE: Poll closed. DIO won with 52%.

 

Author Image

DetectiveDee

Detective Dee reviews movies and sometimes TV-series. He likes to indulge in the Asian cinema, exploitation flicks and the horror genre but is no stranger to Blockbuster culture either. He writes whatever he wants, but always aims to entertain.

  • Abe

    The talk is over! Now it’s time to listen to more talking!

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    Haha whale vagina shout out!

  • Abe

    There is a no in Aronofsky!

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    I’m a big Aronofsky fan but The Wrestler is the only one that doesn’t really do much for me.

  • Abe

    The Fountain does?

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    The Fountain is easily my favorite from him.

  • Abe

    Oh wow. It’s a gorgeous looking film.

  • Dee

    Some classy header image.

  • I_am_better

    It’s good. Fits the theme

  • Dee

    I made a research to find out the font they used for the “Black Swan” poster. That’s dedication.

  • I_am_better

    Your perfectionism puts us all to shame

  • Abe

    Dio you’re losing ground. Noah was bad. Hudsucker was not bad. It might be a weak Coen Brothers film, but in no way bad.

  • I_am_better

    I think Golf is called golf everywhere

  • I_am_better

    “Intermission”….hah!

  • The Last Days of Zissou

  • Abe

    No one can talk shit on Clint Mansell’s work.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    Not even Dee?

  • Dee

    No, that was never a point of the debate.

  • Dee

    No.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    The Noah soundtrack was a little disappointing, though, I thought.

  • Abe

    He can only work with what’s given to him.

  • Dee

    I don’t recall it, to be honest.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    I liked the movie.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    Right.

  • Dee

    I am playing devil’s advocate now, but he made an excellent score for a crappy horror movie called “Wind Chill”.

  • I_am_better

    Hah. The moment I said “fuck it”, and left them to their own devices

  • I_am_better
  • Abe

    I have felt your pain.

  • I_am_better

    You noticed my shoutout to you?

  • Abe

    I had to pause for a moment. I’m not there yet

  • I_am_better

    It’s in the end

  • I_am_better

    My Roman Polanski-comment was NOT a statement in any which way – I just wanted the conversation to not go there. I misphrased, as usual.

  • Listening now.

  • I_am_better

    I have that DVD. Got it from a bargain bin. I gotta watch it sometime. It’s got Emily Blunt, after all

  • Dee

    “leave Polanski alone”, lol

  • Dee

    It’s not good. But the score is outstanding.

  • I_am_better

    Yeah, I realized that it might come back to my face

  • I_am_better

    Every DVD should have an isolated score track, lol.

  • 3.14159265359

  • Abe

    Bad sounding numbers.

  • I_am_better

    That’s what the execs said about “Blackhat”‘s weekend grosses too.
    BA DUM TSSSSH

  • PI : Critics Consensus:Dramatically gripping and frighteningly smart, this Lynchian thriller does wonders with its unlikely subject and shoestring budget.

  • I felt something during the lesbian sex scene in Black Swan

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Now you are attracted to swans?

  • Wrestler is about a guy who has been on top, and has fallen

    Black Swan is about a “newbie” reaching for the top.

    They are not the same.

  • always have been

  • I thought Mila Kunis was good in Black Swan. And that was a movie i thought i would not like, or get at all. But i did like it.

  • If awards don’t matter, and critical consensus does not matter, then its all down to personal preference . Which can go anywhere. But overall, if we then just go by the public opinion on his films, then Aronofsky still comes out on the winning side…….

  • On Requiem i disagree with Dee on every single point.

  • I have not seen the Fountain……

  • I_am_better

    It’s that “thing with a bubble with a fuckin’ tree in it”

  • Abe

    Fun debate boys. Even though clearly Dee won it hands down it was a blast to listen to. BOPX makes Tuesdays suck a whole lot less.

  • I_am_better
  • I_am_better

    (I believe this could work as a DVD cover blurb)

  • I have not seen Noah ……

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Now if they can settle the big issues like:
    -Coke or Pepsi
    -New York or LA
    -Cats or Dogs

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Noah haven’t either.

  • – None of the above
    -New York
    -Cats

    move along

  • I_am_better

    I think next week’s debate shows over/under list just got filled

  • The Razzler !!

  • PI = Good
    Requiem = Good
    Fountain = not seen it
    Wrestler= Good
    Black Swan = Good ( surprised even me )
    Noah = not seen it

    I vote Yes on Aronofsky

  • Dio Vs Dee on Aronofsky: There will be blood! LET IT FLOW, LET IT SQUISH!! FINISH HIM!!!

  • I_am_better
  • PI: Very good
    Requiem For a Dream: Very good
    The Fountain: Excellent
    The Wrestler: Very good
    Black Swan: Very good
    Noah: An hilarious travesty with some good imagery

    Vote: Yes

  • FINISH HIM!!!!

  • 9 votes cast. Dio leads 5 – 4

    When does the vote close ?

  • 5-5 now

  • I_am_better

    Until the votes from Florida are recovered, there’s no way to tell

  • 6-6. Closer than I thought.

  • Tim R.R. Something

    I haven’t voted. I am going to be like Florida and keep everybody waiting.

  • Dee

    I will wait a little till more comments are in and maybe Dio stops by, then I will engage in the discussion. I think it’s more fair.

  • I voted overrated and irrelevant without listening (probably won’t for awhile, still playing catchup on the podcasts).

    He’s definitely overrated because I don’t think he’s made an amazing film and he’s treated like an amazing director. Now you can also toss him into irrelevant due to the Noah debacle. Utter piece of shit.

    Pi and Black Swan are OK. Fountain is meh. The Wrestler is great and Requiem is his only excellent film, though vastly overrated.

  • I_am_better

    Too soon…?

  • Tim R.R. Something

    I’ve tried to watch several of his films, I never saw the genius.

  • FUCK FLORIDA

  • Dee

    I cannot answer to any of those questions.

  • Im guessing Dio has not voted yet. Neither has the SUKers. There is still campaigning to be done.

  • Abe

    Pepsi
    NY
    Dogs

  • Dee

    Spread the word.

  • i tweeted it using Aronofsky’s official twitter handle. Maybe he will vote 🙂

  • Dee

    Great idea!

  • I_am_better

    Next week on BOPX: Special guest, Darren Aronofsky.

    Maybe not.

  • Dee

    I think we can get Senor Spielbergo.

  • I_am_better
  • The Last Days of Zissou

    It’d be fun to do one of these for PTA.

  • Fate_Slistcrunch

    Won’t get a chance to listen to this until tomorrow but I voted yes for Aronofsky, though I have not seen his full body of work.

    Pi – Haven’t seen it, my wife loved it.
    Requiem – Love it
    The Fountain – Haven’t seen it
    The Wrestler – Love it
    Black Swan – Haven’t seen it
    Noah – Love it

  • Abe
  • Dee

    Whom against who?

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    I don’t know. Is anyone die hard for/against him?

  • Dee

    I am neither, to be honest. Aren’t you a die hard fan?

  • RJD

    The wrestler alone disproved dees charlatan point. Dee agrees the wrestler is great.

    Vote what you know
    Vote dio

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    I wouldn’t say die hard. I love 4 of his movies, enjoy 2, and am indifferent on one. I think the question of whether someone like him is relevant is interesting, though, especially in the context of how acclaimed his stuff tends to be coupled with mostly box office losses. I’d take a stab at defending him.

  • Dee

    Maybe we find an opponent.

  • RJD

    Never forget

  • RJD

    Nice idea

  • RJD

    Tomorrow before the debate show

  • voteing shot up pretty fast

  • RJD

    Its ok. They more you talk the more votes I get

  • Dee

    I decided with Slate the polls will be closed at Thursday evening.

  • RJD

    Yes

  • Dee

    That’s….why I will write!

  • RJD

    The debate is over the man being a “charlatan”

    The wrestler alone disproved it

  • Dee

    Boom!

  • RJD

    Good one!

  • RJD

    Wtf is this? New rules ?

  • RJD

    You should have been in the debate!

  • Dee

    To help your sorry ass out?

  • Abe

    Dee is being a gentleman and giving you more time drum up(bribe) and strengthen (threaten) your support.

  • Dee

    I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    I’d like to see a David O. Russell debate, too.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    If you can find a supporter.

  • I enjoy his films. Three Kings, Silver Linings, American Hustle, and The Fighter. Thought they were all good.

  • The Last Days of Zissou

    Alright, you vs. Dee.

  • I wish the listener reaction thing was still on here. Im not saying one of the debaters would call in and concede defeat …… but they might.

  • RJD

    Hot o russell chat in sashas last episode weeks agir

  • RJD

    Idk if it would help. He liked Noah

  • Way better career than Aronofsky.

  • RJD

    Im on it !

  • I_am_better
  • I_am_better
  • Abe

    Are you going to bark all day little doggie?

  • Abe

    Dio has my number.

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Dee Bait With Detective Dee. Could be a thing.

  • Dee

    Awards and critical consensus don’t have to be meaning anything. People are carried away by the hype, even critics. Movies get re-evaluated all the time, some films that were hyped endlessly back in the day are forgotten or regarded as lesser now, while others from the same era still shine.
    It is also in line with my point that Aronofsky is an impostor who is powered by the hype, mostly. The public opinion can change from one day to the other.
    My judgement is not only based on my personal preferences -of course it is partly- but mostly on the arguments, which I can back up.

  • Dee

    It was the other way round for me. I liked the premise, not the result.

  • Dee

    Fair point. But it’s also about two people who abuse their body for their art (job) and die for their passion.

  • Abe

    I’m a moron!

  • RJD

    …. I may call for a recount

  • RJD

    Just bought a new copy last night !

  • Dee

    A new copy does not change it. It’s still the same movie.

  • Dee

    Agree on several points.

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter
  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    I cant seem to find the tab to vote. Is adblocker stopping it?

  • you don’t see the orange and green thingy ? I use adblock and i have no problems.

  • Dee

    It appears and disappears for me the whole time.

  • Tim R.R. Something

    I see them but clicking does nothing. I don’t see percentages either.

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Same for me. I see ’em but I can’t touch ’em. It’s like a very lame lapdance.

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Mandate?

  • Dee

    I told Slate.

  • Tim R.R. Something

    WE’VE BEEN DISENFRANCHISED!

  • well i can´t click either, but i assumed that was because i already did hours ago.

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Thank Obama!

  • Dee

    the poll should work again now

  • Tim R.R. Something

    yeah, no. Thanks for trying. probably some sort of security thing on my end.

  • Dee

    damn

  • Tim R.R. Something

    Please accept my write in vote:
    Overrated!

  • Tim R.R. Something

    BOLLOCKS!

  • Abe

    I apologize to those of you that can’t vote. If you write in your vote in the comments I assure you they will be counted.

  • Abe

    Yes! that’s the word i was looking for.

  • Abe

    Mobile?

  • Abe

    Once clicked you can’t click again.

  • Abe

    He’s barely competent.

  • Abe

    Mobile?

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Nope. Laptop.

  • yeah, thats what i figured.

  • Abe

    I can’t explain that. Unless we’re seeing a javascript error.

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Maybe I clicked-spazzed as I was scrolling through and voted anyway?

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    Dee, I’ve decided I don’t like your poll questions. Aronofsky is inventive but not masterful, and also might be overrated but is certainly not irrelevant. Apologise at once.

  • Abe

    If you see the percentages it thinks you already voted.

  • Dee

    Well… you get the drift. It’s Yes or No basically. So how do you vote?

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    lol I vote Yes.*

    *I might be drunk**

    **But the Yes still counts.

  • Dee

    The adjectives I took from the debate… Thanks for your vote, Col!

  • Dee

    Thanks for voting!

  • Dee

    Ah no, I don’t want to get a “Hater” image.

  • RJD

    He didn’t understand the question

  • RJD

    Pretty sure they turned off the voting once dee got the lead.

    IT’S FLORIDA ALL OVER AGAIN

  • RJD

    Reservoir naughts

  • RJD

    The debate was never about a director being over rated. This isn’t a debate show again with the over under. The guy can be everything I said he is and still be “overrated ” … ie black swans Oscars or Noahs ludicris budget.

    I said he was a visonary dynamic director

    Dee said he was a “worthless charlatan”

    The guys who.commented “oh I liked the wrestler but he’s over rated” … and still voted for Dee …

    Thanks for not paying attention

  • RJD

    After this statement its impossible to vote fir the guy who days he was worthless and a charlatan.

    But yet you did. Lmao

  • Kylo Ronin

    Is that a bit of Tekken ost playing in the background?

  • Kylo Ronin

    I haven’t seen Requiem but people have said that it’s dated.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Whale Vagina?

  • Kylo Ronin

    Ugh, dammit, I need to see Perfect Blue.

  • Kylo Ronin

    O.O

  • Kylo Ronin

    Shit. Is. Getting. Serious.

  • Kylo Ronin

    IAB SAVE US!

  • Kylo Ronin

    😀

  • Kylo Ronin

    Fuckawesome is taking off!

  • Kylo Ronin

    But seriously this got heated.

  • RJD

    Its hard.to.watch

  • RJD

    I saw it in a shadow dojo once

  • Kylo Ronin

    Yep. A long time ago………….

  • RJD

    Finally off work. Jesus. What a great episode. Really great editing. And the abe and iab for breaking it down

  • RJD

    Oh maybe it was at nerdbong

    Never mind

  • Kylo Ronin

    It’s okay.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Both of you guys make really good cases. Who is winning currently?

  • RevengeofZodLovesMaude

    Dio for the win. I do not care for aronofsky, but he has a vision and unique perspective. Good enough

  • franks_television

    Need at least 50 votes to determine the truth.

  • The Real Cat Man Do

    You seem like a turd. tehe

  • Abe

    You got his number. He also stinks at picking NHL games

  • 53 and counting

  • 56 votes . 52% – 48% in favor of Dio.

  • Dee

    Hey guys…. I just tried to rephrase the poll due to Dio’s complaint… Apparently it set the poll back. I am sorry for the fuckup…

  • meaning Dio won.

    56 votes . 52% – 48% in favor of Dio.

  • Dee

    I am sorry this was in no way an attempt to sabotage the poll. Dio was actually right with the phrasing of the poll questions, but it’s not always easy to be editor and contestant and writer of the article.
    I am used from writing to rephrase sentences here and there so not the always same phrases get hammered home all the time, which was out of place here though, as it diluted the essence of what I said, as Dio correctly noted.
    I did a test in the publisher before with the preview function and abolished it but somehow it got saved.

  • Dee

    Sorry I interrupted the poll with a mistake I made. Dio won with 52%.

  • Col. Tigh-Fighter

    lol The film world is a better place for having Aronofsky in it churning out his own brand of weird shit. It doesn;t always sit well with me, but I’m glad he’s out there doing it. The Fountain and Noah sure do look purdy too! Good enough for me 😀

  • Mr Nick Nightly

    Not at all.

  • Dee

    Really good movie.

  • Dee

    For a shocking moment I thought you are talking about Dio.

  • I_am_better

    I gave up

  • I_am_better

    Yes, you do

  • I_am_better
  • Bullshit.

  • Dee

    I am sorry. It’s not a trick, I swear!

  • I’m at a loss for words.

  • We need to do the playoff series, that’s where I excel.

  • You got robbed! Hell, you were leading comfortably before I went to bed last night. I call shenanigans!

  • Dee

    It’s okay. It was my fault and actually I expected to lose much higher

  • Clearly not enough voters have seen Noah.

  • Dee

    I envy them.

  • I can´t imagine that people would judge DA on one single film. But judging by the 48% who voted HACK, maybe they did? Weird. Its like judging James Cameron career based solely on Piranha 2.

  • or John Carpenter on his mars movie…..

  • Dee

    Or Brian DePalma on his mars movie!

  • He hasn’t done shit on Cameron’s level, so unfair, plus a bad movie early in your career is far more forgivable.

  • I’m not much of a John Carpenter fan anyway aside from The Thing, a movie 100x better than anything DA will ever make.

  • Also runs circles around DA, not comparable.

  • im not comparing directors. Im saying people can’t judge a director on one movie alone. I thought that point was made crystal clear. As for which of the directors mentioned are better, that is totally a matter of opinion.

  • Camerons last three films suck ass imo

  • I didn’t like Titanic but I can somewhat appreciate it. The other two are great IMO, though not up to his usual standards.

  • Yeah I know, I didn’t judge him solely on one movie either, the Noah comment was more of a joke than anything. It is so bad though that it does have to impact the overall opinion at least somewhat.

  • i havent seen it, but i doubt it will change my opinions about the ones i have seen.

  • fair enough.

  • RJD

    In a way. ( I think they’d may have been a One or two vote margin ) I think I kinda lost anyway. That many ppl hating it

  • RJD

    Your just taking now. That’s totally not the point of the debate. I agree with you snit the thing

  • RJD

    If the question is interpreted as a refferendum on noah then I should lose. If I.am correct by the wrestler being a great film then the out come should be I win.

    I will not change my opinion on the director over one film or this debate. But after listening I do think Dee “won” the argument part of it.

    If he send me to mars prison… so be it

  • RJD

    Yea the ppl who worked All day dont deserve a vote

  • RJD

    Imagine puck doing exactly that

  • You won. End of story . I was surprised at how close it was , but asking all 56+ voters to vote again would be a tough ask.

  • RJD

    No it was fantastic support and I think dee covered the spread. He may have won verbally. He was asking too much. The film maker is nominated for several Oscars …Not that Oscars are the end all be all.

    Nicole kidman has one

  • Almost done listening now. I think another good counter argument to RJD’s point that he dives into all these different types of movies and makes it work is that Dee could use some of his own examples to show directors that do the same, only much better. Dee mentioned Trainspotting being better than Requiem, which it is, and Danny Boyle has probably an even more diverse catalog than Aronofsky with far, fat better highs (Trainspotting, 28 Days Later, Sunshine, etc.). You could argue Malick also based on Dee’s Tree of Life example, though I’m not a big fan of his to be honest.

  • Dee

    I was trying to do that, but there is only so much space in a debate. Tree of Life is a movie that is conflicted and has its issues, but the creation scene bags the one in Noah in a second.

  • RJD

    That argument fails on every level and mashes about as much sense as.me saying toast smells dark but.clouds taste fresh

    Dannys trainspotting changed movies similar to the way pulp fiction changed them.

    What’s that got to to with any other directior ?

    This just in … Spilberg is great. There fore Carpenter stinks ? No. No. No

  • RJD

    I thought the point you made came across great. The editing was fun and fair. Hind site maybe you scored more points in the debate. I think the hyperbole of saying he was worthless made your case unwinable.

    But like Eric Roberts in the best of the best , I give you the medal.

  • That’s not my point, my point is you praised Aronofsky for his diversity when he’s not even that diverse to begin with, especially compared to the quality of similarly or more diverse peers. Hell, thematically Aronofsky is almost as one note as you can get, so all he does it take a genre and plunk it down into his framework, as opposed to going into a genre and building out from within its confines.

  • RJD

    yup your right.

    directors dont recycle themes.

    ever

    esp the great ones like Martin, Franics, and Steven.

    do you even write for a movie site ?

  • Abe

    Or The Fountain.

  • recycling =/= repeating

  • RJD

    Scorsese and coppala have made the same films over And over. Cronenburg does the same thing.

    If you ask this debate question before noah its a resounding pro vote. Im not gonna can the guy for making a boat load of.money. and a bad movie.

  • RJD

    its the same movie to puck