Six Reasons why the DC Extended Universe might do just fine Six Reasons why the DC Extended Universe might do just fine
Why Warner Bros. won't suffer from the current backlash against Batman v Superman. Six Reasons why the DC Extended Universe might do just fine

Batman v Superman is out and it is dividing the audience like rarely any superhero movie before, including the already controversial predecessor Man of Steel and last year’s Avengers: Age of Ultron by the Marvel Studio, which also surprisingly received mixed reactions.

Even the Supernaughts writers cannot agree if the movie is uninspired or “messy but breathtaking”. And while the professional critics are panning it unanimously (at this point residing at a disastrous 28% on rottentomatoes), the first BO results are more than solid.

Not to talk about the heated debate that will continue to split the fandom. One point that is coming up frequently, is:

Could a possible backlash make the foundation of the DCEU (DC Extended Universe), which is still comparatively fragile to that of the successful MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe) and already raised some skepticism with its Gung-Ho “all-in” approach, go crumble? Is this the price Warner Bros. will pay for trying to replicate the Marvel Studio’s success with a crowbar?

I am going out on a limb here and claim that the DCEU might not be as in danger as some make it out to be.

And here are the reasons why:

#1 Wonder Woman

If there is one element of Batman v Superman a majority of even the most disappointed critics and fans can agree on, then it’s the introduction of Gal Gadot as the superheroine Wonder Woman. The fact that the casting choice has been criticized in advance plays in her favour now, as there is nothing that people love more than a story of success against all odds (more about that later).
A standalone Wonder Woman feature film is already in the making and to be released in June 2017. The advance praise for her cameo in Batman v Superman is creating an invaluable buzz for the movie. Furthermore, it’s the first big female superhero movie ever, directed by a female director, a feat that the competitor Marvel Studios were not able to pull off yet. This novelty will definitely garner further interest and finally crack the female demography. And last, but definitely not least: the fandom for Wonder Woman is huge and they have been clamouring for a WW movie for ages.

 

batman_35FhC6u

#2 Batman

…and if there is a second element in Batman v Superman almost everybody praised, then it’s the characterization of the new Batman and the performance of the man behind the rubber mask, Ben Affleck, yet another casting decision that worked far better than it sounded initially. Affleck’s Batman is determined and passionate about his nightshift- job, something fans have been missing about the incarnation in Nolan’s trilogy. I would be surprised if Warner Bros. isn’t fast-tracking a standalone Bats- movie in the background, maybe even with Ben Affleck as director as it has been rumoured. Affleck’s recent career resurgence is, see also above, another unexpected success story and -again- people just looove a good comeback.
A new Batman movie can also benefit from an improved costume- and CGI- technology, making the superhero act more agile than ever before. Story-wise, a lot of the heavy-lifting (origin story, setup, introduction of characters, etc.) has already been done in Dawn of Justice, so we can expect a Batman- adventure that is leaner and meaner than any before it. Considering all this, the strength of the “Batman brand” and, as in the case of Wonder Woman, the hype created with his introduction in Batman v Superman, it’s almost impossible that a standalone Batman movie will be anything else than a huge success.

 

suicidesquad

#3 Suicide Squad

Deadpool is so far the biggest cinematic sensation of 2016. A benefiter from its enormous success might be Suicide Squad, as Deadpool left behind a audience that is apparently craving for a raunchier kind of superhero movies and also willing to accept lesser known characters as leads. Suicide Squad might not be R-rated, but the trailer promises a more anarchic and chaotic tone that will play in its favour, now that Merc without Mouth paved the way. In a certain sense, it might also owe a lot to Guardians of the Galaxy which made the concept of the “lawless motley crew that includes surreal characters” fashionable. The relentless, immoral characters and the dark humour are a refreshing contrast to the superhero movies of late, that either forced their heroes to grow as humans (Ant-Man, oh the irony) or confronted them with moral dilemmas (Captain America: Winter Soldier, The Avengers: Age of Ultron). Visually, it also seems to go against the grain with its dirty, neon-lit aesthetic.

Another important factor are the characters and the actors who play them. Comic book fans have been demanding a movie version of the insanely popular Harley Quinn, Bruce Timm’s genius creation from the lauded Batman: The Animated Series ever since and the casting of Margot Robbie has been met with mostly positive reactions. The character of the Joker still resonates strongly with the general audience and Jared Leto’s performance promises to be delightfully unhinged. While Will Smith isn’t as big a draw as he has been once, he still has a bankable name and he might incite interest with a villain role that is outside his usual comfort zone. The star-power of Cara Delevingne has been on the rise since she has been officially cast as Enchantress, partly due to a role in the upcoming Luc-Besson Sci-Fi extravaganza Valerian. Margot Robbie’s status might leap from “star” to “super-star” after the release of Suicide Squad.

Also, it was pretty clever by Warner Bros. to keep the fact that this takes place in the Batman v Superman– universe out of the trailers (apart from a second of footage of Batman). Audience members who were disappointed by the superhero brawl will not be deterred from checking out Suicide Squad and in case they enjoy the movie, they might gain a more favourable attitude towards future Batman– adventures again. The introduction of the Joker is also another element that will up the stakes in a potential upcoming “Batfleck” movie.

aquaman

#4 It’s different

This is not a new argument, but it’s still valid. The DCEU movies exude a different vibe than the Marvel movies and also the Fox superhero movies. Unless the long-expected “superhero fatigue” really kicks in suddenly, people might flock in just to see something that feels different from the Marvel fare. This is also the first year when Marvel and DC seem to go on direct confrontation course with their releases, finally transferring their old feud onto the screen. In days when the hype surrounding a movie becomes more important than the movie itself, I could imagine that many will see those movies just for the fun to witness the battle of those giants and compare their outputs. Which could bestow the DCEU with some precious momentum. Talking about hype…

 

luthor

#5 “PR fixes everything”

We live in times where the marketing- and PR-department is the most important subdivision of a studio. As I mentioned above, the hype and buzz surrounding a movie often surpasses the actual product. The same goes for “brand recognition”, a concept whose importance became increasingly important with the rise of the Marvel Studios and J.J. Abrams’ production company “Bad Robot”, to cite two egregious examples, who took a page from the book of Steve Jobs. It seems that the fans’ perception of and the discourse about a movie can be influenced in manifold subtle ways by, to quote American Crime Story, “spinning a narrative”. To hammer it home a third time: People. Love. A good “underdog success story”… no matter how phoney it might really be. See “Apple” again, a brand that successfully posed itself as the thinking person’s alternative to Microsoft and other companies, despite inhuman conditions in their factories and a long list of environmental sins, not to speak of the software from hell that is iTunes. Marketing experts managed to shift our desire for identification from movie stars to multi-billion dollar corporations. Don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t mean their movies are actually all bad (…but they occasionally can be…), but even a brilliant movie can barely sustain itself relying on its quality alone these days. It needs the hype.

And this also means that every image is malleable and can take a 180° turn, which includes the slightly damaged image of DC. It seems that Batman v Superman will receive a massive backlash, but that doesn’t have to mean anything in the long term as long as it can be integrated into the “narrative” in a meaningful way.
Let’s use Ben Affleck’s career as an analogy: Would his turn as director and comeback as actor regarded as highly if he had not been the laughing stock of Hollywood for almost a decade? Not to belittle his recent work in any way, but his latest output would probably not as appreciated if he would have been constantly delivering good work, as paradox as it is. Or to come back to DC’s greatest competitor, Marvel: Their movie Ant-Man could be seen as a return to the safe and proved realm of simplistic, humorous origin stories following the convoluted and overblown Age of Ultron that did not meet the expectations of many fans. Yet it was, among fans, perceived as a proof that Marvel “still has it” and the choice to build a movie around a hero with such “unusual” powers was even considered as the studio’s increasing willingness to be daring and experimental. Wishful thinking from the fans or clever marketing? Both, I think.

Upcoming DCEU movies that peruse elements introduced in BvS will, if they fare better among fans, also shed a more favourable light on the latter in hindsight. The Director’s Cut of BvS might tie things together more convincingly and lead to a reevaluation of the film. It was further explicitly stated, by Aquaman– director James Wan among others, that the future instalments will feature a different tone than Snyder’s efforts, offering something for everyone.
Zack Snyder is going to shoot Justice League in a few weeks and I am almost willing to bet that they will issue a statement that he will be joined/supervised by a writer with geek cred (maybe even a DC comics artist) and that they will address the fans’ most common complaints regarding BvS. It might be window-dressing, but it works. By 2017, the year Justice League is released, they might have garnered enough goodwill again to carry on with Snyder.

Yet, brand recognition is not everything. Most of that is directed at fans, a valuable but small part of the audience, not the general crowd. This can be witnessed by the success of the….

 

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#6 The FOX/SONY way…

What happens if all this doesn’t work out?

Well, in this case DC could abandon the idea to become a veritable competition to Marvel and retool their concept after the model of Fox or Sony, aka the “Money talks” concept. Okay, they don’t really have what one would call a “concept”, it’s more a muddled mess. But that mess is still pretty darn successful. For every abandoned project like Sinister Six and mega-flop like the latest Fantastic Four adaptation, there are a slew of X-Men and Spiderman– movies of wildly varying quality and resonance among fans and critics, but with BO- receipts that usually range between “solid” and “outstanding”. The continuity of these franchises is wonky and apart from some half-assed, lazy pandering, there is close to zero contact with the fanbase. The success of the X-Men franchise is, including the best and the worst instalments, based on 30% reliance on the popularity of the characters, 30% star power, 30% spectacle and 10% actual creativity.

Means in the worst case scenario, DC could pull the plug of their cinematic universe and focus on countless star-studded sequels to movies about their most popular characters, maybe even reboot every single one of them in a few years. Given that Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman might be more well-known than the X-Men and are endowed with a mythology rich with different villains and famous storylines that you can tease fans with and just wait for a really disappointing realization, the BO- power would stay on their side.

Bottom line:

Batman v Superman might have put off many due to its crowbar approach to set up a cinematic universe that rivals that of the Marvel Studios- although I personally would argue that it still retains an independent story and individual identity unlike noteworthy efforts by competitors that also fulfilled a franchise-building function, namely Iron Man 2, Avengers: Age of Ultron and The Amazing Spiderman 2.

If I am correct with my points made above -time will tell- it would be unfair to say that this approach is unorganized or not well thought out. I’d rather think it’s wise, as the audience might be unwilling to sit through another bunch of origin movies if DC decided to copy the Marvel recipe to a T. The current strategy could prove as a more dynamic and fresh alternative that successfully kickstarts the universe with a jolt.

What’s your opinion on this? Agree? Disagree? If I prove to be wrong with my assumptions, feel free to come back to this comment thread and tell me how it is!

 

Author Image

DetectiveDee

Detective Dee reviews movies and sometimes TV-series. He likes to indulge in the Asian cinema, exploitation flicks and the horror genre but is no stranger to Blockbuster culture either. He writes whatever he wants, but always aims to entertain.

  • Foster Breadford

    Too big to fail tentpoleism

  • Dee

    exactomundo

  • Dee

    wanna participate in our Best of list still?

  • Foster Breadford

    Best of what again?

  • Sagamanus

    You know. When we see Aquaman on land then we can talk particulars. His sequence in BvsS was great and I definitely wanted to see more. But, and not to be funny here, will he be a fish out of water?

    Breadford please!

  • Dee

    movies

  • Dee

    movies from 2000-2015. Top 10

  • Sagamanus

    I disliked MoS but did quasi-like BvsS. I thought a lot of it was great. Eisenberg was a sticking point for both my brother and I. And although he really likes the actor, the character was too cartoony for him. I agreed completely with that.

  • Sagamanus

    No Martian Manhunter in Justice League = less interested.

  • Foster Breadford

    Oh boy. I’ll see what I can throw together. What’s my deadline?

  • Foster Breadford

    Seemed like Snyder wanted it to be very Batman Forevery.

  • Sagamanus

    The prequels were all damage control for Lucas. He tried to right all the wrongs with each successive film. Is that what DC is going to be?

  • Sagamanus

    Yeah that is a strange thing to want to emulate.

  • Dee

    Friday. that okay? You can also write just a sentence or submit a pure list.

  • Foster Breadford

    We all know you have some confused feelings about Val Kilmer.

  • Foster Breadford

    On Friday or is Thursday the cut off?

  • Sagamanus

    Apparently he was 200lbs in that film. I doubt it.

  • Foster Breadford

    This is what I mean.

  • Dee

    friday 23:59 is fine

  • Foster Breadford

    On it!

  • Dee

    et tu, Sagamanus?

  • Dee

    Mars is BO poison.

  • Foster Breadford

    Who would you cast? Don’t say Val Kilmer.

  • Sagamanus

    Yeah, that has definitely been the case. With the exception of Total Recall(1990).

  • Sagamanus

    …Val Kilmer? Is that among the options?

  • Foster Breadford

    Hostile witness, your honor!

  • Dee

    hopefully not

  • Sagamanus

    I did write something. Then deleted it WHEN YOU DECIDED TO LEAVE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS DEAD IN THE WATER!!! God damn you Dee. That being said. I will rewrite something as fast as I can.

  • Foster Breadford

    That’s what they all say.

  • Dee

    fuck, why do you delete?

  • Sagamanus

    Don’t worry. I’ll fix everything. It was substantial but not that much. I’ll get on it.

  • Sagamanus

    Breadford is really into comics these days. I can tell when he was rubbing his hands together after seeing Doomsday.

  • Dee

    You have material for a Worst of too? coming up soon

  • Foster Breadford

    Got a team of writers working in shifts.

  • Foster Breadford

    I took a leisurely stroll to the restroom during the Doomsday fight.

  • Sagamanus

    BvsS 30% doesn’t make any sense at all. If Batfleck was so loved, and deservedly so, and Wonder Woman’s debut caused a positive ruckus. That alone should have carried it over. But I guess Doomsday’s battle was too Snydery, which means ‘busy destruction’, and they hate a dark Superman.

  • Sagamanus

    Very good.

  • Foster Breadford

    It was interesting to see Superman regard saving the world with the same disdain most people have going to work on Monday morning.

  • Dee

    I wanna know what you deem as the worst as well.

  • Dee

    can you blame him?

  • Sagamanus

    There was a time when Affleck was box-office poison. When they were trying to turn him into an action star.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I can like his performance but hate the character.

  • Sagamanus

    HOLY CRAP IT’S KYLO RONIN!!!

  • Sagamanus

    True.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Don’t know if you got my list but I sent right before Mar. 27 as you said.

  • Dee

    “I only save this burning Mexican factory because they produce those nifty cheap sweatbands I need for tennis”

  • Sagamanus

    Oh I got a few in mind.

  • Dee

    “Damn I own stock of this company, gotta save it from the fire”

  • Foster Breadford

    Not really. I’d be saving cats instead.

  • Kylo Ronin

    It’s just the same way I feel about Hateful Eight. Great performances all around; despicable characters to their dying breaths.

  • Dee

    yes! I was about to answer. I was at home and saw it on my phone

  • Foster Breadford

    There’s a reason why Wayne stays rich.

  • Kylo Ronin

    That’s the Superman I miss.

  • Foster Breadford

    And a rom com star

  • Sagamanus

    I don’t think they abandoned Sinister Six Dee. They keep on trying to start up Venom as well.

  • Foster Breadford

    And a dramatic actor

  • Sagamanus

    Does he have any place?

  • Kylo Ronin

    I really should have drank liquids before I went to see the movie. Probably would have gotten a good excuse to leave for ten minutes.

  • Sagamanus

    Indeed.

  • Foster Breadford

    Deep.

  • Dee

    boo…

  • Foster Breadford

    I came back and Superman was in space taking a break or something.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I have a question about my username here on SN. Am I able to change it or not?

  • Sagamanus

    Batman’s not really difficult to catch to be honest.

  • Foster Breadford

    Emma Watson returns

  • Dee

    They pretend to get on it again, I bet they won’t. In any case, it has been a money pit so far.

  • Dee

    I think there should be.

  • Foster Breadford

    Have you tried?

  • Dee

    I take a look at it tomorrow.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I honestly believe this is my generation’s Temple of Doom. And this means I was one of the few that probably didn’t like ToD.

  • Foster Breadford

    Temple of Doom was da bomb in Phantoms yo

  • Dee

    ha, loved ToD

  • Sagamanus

    Venom has no place as a solo project to be honest. He has no pantheon of characters and the Spiderman films really suck. So how is he going to go it alone, in an empty universe of even more pointless stories?

  • Sagamanus

    No, as he does not exist.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I swear to God, if they ever did try to catch him, the bodycount would be so high it would put Rambo to shame.

  • Foster Breadford

    Guess he’s hard to catch.

  • Dee

    IF they make it, his origin will only be alluded to. Haven’t there been solo adventures of Venom in comic book shape?

  • Sagamanus

    Yeah. That planet of the symbiotes thing. And now he’s apparently part of The Guardians of The Galaxy.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I love ToD as well. But I’m saying that I’m probably one of those folks that didn’t like it when I came out. In the sense…fuck it, I’m just going to stop mangling the English language.

  • Foster Breadford

    They should do a mocumentary about Michael Moore trying to get an interview with Superman about why he only saves people who have high paying jobs in cities with low unemployment.

  • Kylo Ronin

    When I came out.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Wasn’t even aware I was closeted.

  • Sagamanus

    That was one of the first films I saw in the theater.

  • Dee

    There is an episode in the old series where they find out it’s Bruce Wayne by using deductive logic. He has to be rich, young, etc.. So they take Wayne and Grayson as hostages and if Batman and Robin don’t appear to save them, they have ultimate proof it must be them. Thankfully, Alfred saves them by dressing up as Batman, lol.

  • Kylo Ronin

    That line says everything about BvS.

  • Dee

    I understand.

  • Sagamanus

    Oh god it’s Breadford on the attack again. With one of his favorite targets.

  • Kylo Ronin

    …….Huh? Oh, this is something different.

  • Foster Breadford

    Sagamanus didn’t think this was as good as that Dean Cain TV show.

  • Dee

    by the way, I agree that most Spiderman movies suck

  • Kylo Ronin

    The Martian?

  • Sagamanus

    I remember that. Ha.

  • Kylo Ronin

    George Clooney.

  • Dee

    poor Dean Cain. The green screen was so small, he could never stretch his arms out.

  • Dee

    DAMN

  • Kylo Ronin

    I think I finally see why one wouldn’t like ToD. I mean, aside from the other baggage but that’s another topic for another day.

  • Foster Breadford

    It’s basically animal cruelty.

  • Sagamanus

    Not sure how well that did. But it’s tradition to consecrate an actor’s passage into box office success, by opening in a bomb regarding a film about Mars. All part of growing up.

  • Dee

    THE SPELL IS BROKEN

  • Kylo Ronin

    I’m sure the BO was robust.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Always wanted to use robust in the proper context.

  • Sagamanus

    I didn’t even watch that. However I did watch that stupid Smallville show. Jesus Christ how I avoided shooting myself I’ll never know.

  • Sagamanus

    He reappeared in Supergirl recently.

  • Dee

    as Superman???

  • Kylo Ronin
  • Dee

    the blond girl was cute

  • Foster Breadford

    Hadn’t mastered that shotgun cocking yet.

  • Dee

    Lois Lane was a total bimbo

  • Sagamanus

    He’ll probably be a surprise though.

  • Sagamanus

    No. He’s father to the adopted Supergirl.

  • Dee

    How is the series?

  • Sagamanus

    Chloe.

  • Dee

    yes

  • Sagamanus

    Watchable. Better than Smallville. But then again Martian Manhunter is in it. A lot in later episodes.

  • Foster Breadford
  • Sagamanus

    Ha.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I’ll do you one better. Switch Moore out with Maher interviewing Superman and have Moore try to interview Batman on why he only attacks the lower class.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I hate that show.

  • Sagamanus

    It went on forever.

  • Foster Breadford

    I’d watch that. Both can consistently make decent points but in the least convincing way possible.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Later issues have him burn criminals alive with chemicals.

  • Kylo Ronin

    And then he has sex with Black Canary on top of the dead bodies of said criminals.

  • Dee
  • Kylo Ronin

    That’s not a joke. That’s what happens.

  • Sagamanus

    They have to continue on with the dark characterizations for DC as to distinguish themselves from the fun and light of most of Marvel’s output. This is why Zack Snyder would not be fired. And it’s also why Singer is on X-Men like a lobster on Zissou’s toes.

  • Dee

    who did the art?

  • Dee

    I read about it, never read it.

  • Sagamanus

    What is this?

  • Kylo Ronin

    I’m done praising Miller. After watching a review on Holy Terror, I’m just done.

  • Kylo Ronin

    A generation of kids are going to grow up with these iterations.

  • Foster Breadford

    Did-a-chick?

  • Sagamanus

    I hate Miller beyond belief. I’m aware of Holy Terror, but have not seen any interviews regarding it. I’m sure he comes off as pretty god damn horrible.

  • Kylo Ronin

    They’re never going to know Timm’s work.

  • Kylo Ronin

    I even heard kids in the audience. To a movie that in no way should have been a PG-13.

  • Foster Breadford

    I like X2 for whatever reason. That’s one of the few comic book movies I can rewatch.

  • Dee

    Really? I hate that one.

  • Foster Breadford

    This is why our relationship didn’t last.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Holy Terror is basically NotBatman fighting Islamic terrorists with the aid of NotCatwoman and NotJim Gordon.

  • Dee

    I am from Krypton you are from Mars.

  • Sagamanus

    I’m cataloging this as one of your stranger responses since we went head to head on all the iterations of Orpheus. From Cocteau’s Orphée to Black Orpheus. No Eurydice will never return, so get over it!

  • Kylo Ronin

    And THAT was the characterization you saw in theaters. NotBatman.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Read The Gunslinger series, dammit.

  • Sagamanus

    There all bad Breadford. The man has no style. And the cinematography is turning on the camera.

  • Dee

    Don’t ask Sagamanus. He hates all X-Men movies.

  • Foster Breadford

    Where all bad?

  • Sagamanus

    I will.

  • Foster Breadford

    It’s the patriarchy in him.

  • Dee

    First Class and Days of Future Past were fine, visually.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Jim Lee.

  • Dee

    But otherwise, it’s TV-movie land.

  • Kylo Ronin

    Let’s just say that in a way, Snyder was technically correct about basing his Batman on Miller’s Batman.

  • Foster Breadford

    I remember enjoying Apt Pupil but you internet folk all tell me I’m remembering wrong.

  • Foster Breadford

    That’s more than Marvel movies can claim.

  • Kylo Ronin

    All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder. Makes it sound like it’s for children.

  • Sagamanus

    The idea behind the films is filling up space with new mutants but doing nothing with them. It’s why Colossus is great in Deadpool and blows for the few seconds he’s in one of those X-Men films. I think the last one. I can’t recall.

  • Sagamanus

    I think I’ve seen part of that only. So I can’t say.

  • Dee

    buuuurn

  • Sagamanus

    Yeah I like the style but not necessarily the design for that car. Is it an alternate era?

  • Foster Breadford

    I was never that impressed with The Usual Suspects.

  • Foster Breadford
  • Dee

    Not that impressed with Apt Pupil either.

  • Kylo Ronin

    It’s in the Dark Knight universe. The Millerverse since it isn’t technically the original universe. Thank. Fucking. God.

  • Foster Breadford

    You may be right. I haven’t rewatched it ever.

  • Sagamanus

    I remember how they were promoting the fact ‘Who was

    Keyser Söze?’. As if it was that complicated. I don’t the effort made as much of an impact as Reservoir Dogs did when it came out.

  • Dee

    You know the story is powerful but it has no ambition. It’s a very simple thriller in the end. Like “The Hand that rocks the Cradle” with a Nazi.

  • Foster Breadford

    Reservoir Dogs is much better.

  • Sagamanus

    Chum Lee? I knew you watched that. You must be heartbroken at what’s transpired.

  • Foster Breadford

    Better than The Boys from Brazil?

  • Sagamanus

    I don’t THINK I mean. Jesus, forgot to add that.

  • Dee

    No way.

  • Foster Breadford

    That one is ambitious I guess.

  • Dee

    The whole identification angle is interesting, but it’s so superficial.

  • Dee

    Based on real events.

  • Foster Breadford

    Friends era David Schwimmer

  • Sagamanus

    I’ve never seen that film. It’s on my list of films to watch and has been for a long time. I just haven’t got around to it.

  • Sagamanus

    THEY’RE I mean. Jesus.

  • Sagamanus

    Back-off Breadford I’m typing fast.

  • Slate_Fistcrunch

    I thought you were his favorite target.

  • Sagamanus

    Apparently he likes attacking two other people more. And one of them is his reflection.

  • Slate_Fistcrunch

    Zissou is a complicated man.

  • Slate_Fistcrunch

    Of course.

  • My worst of list will put all others to shame.

  • I agree with pretty much all of this. Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad will be huge. The money keeps Snyder around. Justice League will crush every Avengers film under its mighty boot.

    The Batman standalone(s) won’t work in this universe unless they’re prequels though (like Wonder Woman is), IMO. Unless they wanna go the dumbass Marvel route of Batman fighting a bunch of criminals on his own while Superman is off on vacation or some shit.

  • Toruk_Makto

    This may not be the popular opinion…but I never really bought into the whole DC/MARVEL war jazz. Always seemed like a bunch of horseshit. Kinda like Democrats and Republicans…something to keep the plebs busy while the real powers rake in the cash and enjoy the benefits.

    In the comic world…content-wise the disparity between the two has never been enough to push either one from their respective perches in decades. Each one was lucky enough to develop their mega-characters which have kept them both afloat when times were tough.

    Translated to film, these mega-characters have performed the same task, perhaps even more effectively given the format. I’ve never heard a casual moviegoer espouse that they weren’t going to watch a comic-book movie because it was a DC character or vice-versa. The fact that it’s a comic book character from either of the two big parties seems to be enough to warrant a ticket.

    Even comic book readers…who are more apt to judge with their wallets (as a Marvel reader growing up I can attest that I rarely bought DC comics…I just raided my Uncle’ s stash for free) which side they prefer, seem to watch both Marvel and DC movies. Even, If only so that they can have something to slam the other side about. Which, to the accountants translates, to six of one, half-dozen of another.

    Oh well, perhaps it doesn’t matter either way…it’s something to do to pass the time. And it is kinda fun.

  • Stalkeye

    Great OP, Dee-dee!
    What’s unfortunate is how DCWB could’ve made the first ensemble Superhero Film but “Nooooooo” WB passed on it in favor for more Nolan Batman films! As a result, we have this jumbled mess called BvS, a Movie that needed serious editing. And Marvel did everything right, where FOX and Sony has ruined their Intellectual properties.
    Marvel took chances with obscure characters like Ant-Man and GOTG and it payed off. (Ant-Man was good, Fuck y’all!:P) Goddamn WBDC couldn’t even do Green lantern justice ergo, I still have doubts that they can compete with Marvel’s streak. (Even Deadpool was damn good and FOX has finally managed to get their shit together.)

    Suicide Squad should’ve been R-rated and once again WBDC is fucking up however, a solo Batfleck Movie might save what’s left of their reputation. Who knows, indeed?

  • Stalkeye

    No fucking way! Peck owned that classic!

  • Dee

    I agree, I think the rivalry was mostly played for fun. But we might enter a phase where it gets real, as the superhero movie market gets crowded. I think there is less leeway than on the comic book market.

  • Dee

    Yeah, the Batman movies HAVE to be prequels. Unless they make one that takes place between BvS and Justice League while Supes is still dead.

  • Dee

    Thank you! It really depends. I think they changed the committee for the DC movies at Marvel since Green Lantern. The Nolan trilogy had to be finished too.
    And I am not sure if a Justice League movie from 2003 would have been any good.

  • CoolHandJuke

    did they include the part about how he couldn’t get it up? been a while since i saw it…

  • CoolHandJuke

    they should make a movie based on the Dream story from Endless Nights. i wanna see Krypton’s star being told he should explode in order to leave only one alive to despair. they can probably shoe horn some mutant bats in too, if necessary…

  • Dee

    yes, that was in the movie

  • Dee

    with a pedo beard. But what I want to say is that in the end it makes no difference in the movie if Mc Kellan was a Nazi or a serial killer or an assassin or whatever. It’s a pretty simple “neighbour with a dark past” story.

  • Toruk_Makto

    As well he should. Fuck SInger. Fuck his X-men.

  • Toruk_Makto

    Which is like pissing on the heads of those poor bastards getting sub-standard stir-fried shit.

    We are talking about X-men movies, right?

  • Toruk_Makto

    ‘it’s also why Singer is on X-Men like a lobster on Zissou’s toes”

    Lol, you’re goddamn right, that sumbitch will not let go!

  • Mr Nick Nightly

    I disagree about Marvel’s “risks.” Marvel was a juggernaut by the time they released Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy. The name “Marvel” is bigger than any of their films or characters at this point, so people will come in droves to anything with that stamp on it as long as they keep with their proven copy-and-paste formula.

    I think DC/WB outdid themselves with Batman v Superman. Jumbled mess? No, just some questionable editing at points. While Marvel continues to play in their soft, safe, boring little sandbox, DC/WB gave us a bizarre, unique, operatic spectacle which reflects real world politics and social issues, and also isn’t afraid to go full mythology (demigods killing the beast with a “magic” spear). Extraordinary world-building, mature themes, and a massive scope made this loads of fun for me. It’s far from perfect, but I see its weaknesses also work as strengths.

    As far as comic films go, DC/Marvel are the only ones taking risks and making amything truly exciting. Even Deadpool was just a typical, bland kids movie, but with blood and cursing. I saw right through that garbage.

    BRING ON THE JUSTICE LEAGUE.

  • I_am_better

    #7: We drill. We bring in the world’s best deep core-drilling team.

  • Stalkeye

    Marvel gambled on obscure characters and many were skeptical of Ant-man and GOTG, including myself and yet both performed well at the BO.
    I mostly critiqued BvS of its lack of proper editing and various flaws as mentioned in my review. Bats helped saved what was left of the “beautiful” mess.

  • Captain Genius

    you fucking insane

  • Captain Genius

    the marvel dc thing and its fans can fuck off.

    i’m a superhero guy. i’ll take all comers

  • KilliK

    fuck DCEU, here is the new international trailer of Warcraft:

    and in case the DECU fans wonder what those non black/grey things are, it’s called color.

  • Those Bayformers movies just keep coming. Keep getting worse. Keep making money. Next we get Nr 5. Then a bumblebee movie, then nr 6 and so on……

    The escalation of absurdities will grow now that Bay´s classmate Snyder has a franchise . They can one-up each other with explosions and VFX ( aka plot)

  • KilliK

    JarJar,Bay,Snyder, we are living the movie era of the hacks. I only hope this will come to an inevitable end at some point and a new golden age for HW will start.

  • KilliK

    yeah, his money.

  • Toruk_Makto

    Somebody’s ready to rumble.

  • Dee

    No Armageddon quotes on this sacred ground.

  • Captain Genius

    yeah, i’m feeling extra saucy this morning. i’m sorry. i’ve just never got the marvel vs dc thing. each universe has it’s strengths and weaknesses. i read the shit that’s fun. i don’t care who puts it out.

  • Dee

    I have to agree with Nick. Ant-man felt like an extremely safe movie. Guardians of the Galaxy was a bit of a gamble but not as much as they tried to sell us. They built GotG on their brand recognition, star power, the audience’s hunger for space adventures in the wake of the return of SW and a ton of marketing.

  • Idk about Fox having gotten their shit together. Seems Deadpool succeeded despite of Fox, and now they don´t know how to capitalise. Deadpool is set in “present day” while Raven and the X-Kids are in 1983 for their non apocalyptic Apocalypse. While their “star” Wolverine is now poised to be set even farther in the future with the third Wolverine movie. And Gambit has again been delayed.I doubt it will even happen now. Possibly because they now want to throw all their chips into Deadpool 2, because it succeeded by a fluke.

    I mentioned earlier that a Deadpool sequel with time traveller Cable could end with Deadpool and Vanessa ending up in the 1980s timeline along with what Fox is passing off as the X-Men. The time jump could even trigger Vanessa´s mutation into CopyCat. They wouldn’t need to join the team , but at least all of Fox´s player would them exist in the same time period.

    But what are the chances that Fox would figure this out ???

  • Toruk_Makto

    I never got into it either.

    I don’t care where comic book stories come from for the most part as long as they’re good.

    Hell, I used to be a huge Elementals fan…and I think they came from a company called Comico.

  • Safe for Marvel.

    A studio without their previous track record, and ability to tie Ant-Man into their ongoing plan, would never even take that risk ( i think )

    GotG is the same to a certain degree. The avengers , and subsequent films already introduced Thanos, The Infinity Gems etc, so to the casual filmgoers it might look like a totally separate entity,and a gamble, but Marvel fans would know how all this ties together down the line.

    If Adam Warlock is not introduced as the holder of the Soul Gem in GotG 2……. that would be almost as bad as like giving Doomsday just 15min of screen time in DCU………

  • Captain Genius

    the dcu is gonna need a lot more steve buscemi

  • Captain Genius

    ant man was super safe

  • There there. It’s alright.

  • Im with you on that.

  • Stalkeye

    And he’ll gladly admit to it. (0=

  • Stalkeye

    Ant-man may seem like a “safe” bet, however, not everyone is a fan of said character, yet they (Marvel) pulled it off as part Heist film, part action with sprinkles of comedic elements.
    And who thought Rudd would kill it as the titular character?
    Not to mention the supporting cast like Douglas and certain “Cameos” leading to Civil War? If anything, Age of Ultron tried to play it more safer than Ant-Man, yet it was an artistic failure.
    DC could’ve struck gold and had their very own Phase One with Green Lantern (Again!) but those idiots screwed the pooch.
    Really how hard is it to make a good GL Movie?

    BvS may be a sign of “Too little, too late” however, SS and a solo Batman Movie(Wonder Woman too!) may help to rejuvenate their IPs.

  • Stalkeye

    If Adam Warlock is not introduced as the holder of the Soul Gem in GotG 2……. that would be almost as bad as like giving Doomsday just 15min of screen time in DCU………”

    http://www.snarksquad.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/preach3.gif

  • Stalkeye

    It’s like rooting for your favorite sports team. Be it DC vs Marvel, Sega Vs Nintendo, Sony vs Microsoft some are into the competition thing.
    Politicians are mostly corrupt so there’s no fun spirit of competition when it comes to primaries or electoral votes. That being said, Trump is a clown who must lose!!

  • Stalkeye

    Bill Willingham was a dick to some readers on the Elementals’ editorial page. Real piss n vinegar that guy. XD

  • Stalkeye

    Justice League will crush every Avengers film under its mighty boot.”
    In your (Wet) dreams, Pucky! 😛
    Well, it may at least crush Age of Ultron cause that sequel was wack!

  • Negasonic Middle Aged Warhead

    Good work as usual Dee.

  • Captain Genius

    no more fucking batman movies. unless it’s a shaw brothers style martial arts bloodsport film where he has to enter a kumite against the top badasses in the dcu to save someone, or solve a crime.

  • Captain Genius

    unless it’s a shaw brothers style martial arts bloodsport film where he has to enter a kumite against the top badasses in the dcu to save someone, or solve a crime.

  • Phillyflopper

    “For god’s sakes, think about what you’re doin’. Why are you listening to
    someone that’s a 100,000 miles away? We’re here, nobody down there can
    help us. So if we don’t get this job done, everybody’s gone”

  • Phillyflopper

    Nintendo’s got Mode 7 and Anti-Aliasing. Way better than blast processing. 😛

  • Captain Genius

    oh hell nah!

  • Stalkeye

    Sega had Shinobi, Sonic, Gunstar Heroes annnnnnd Streets of Rage!
    “Genesis does”!

  • Stalkeye

    Cray-cray concept, but it ujst might work!

  • Stalkeye
  • Stalkeye

    I asked a few of my coworkers if they have seen BvS and I have never seen such a bunch of uncomfortable faces, prior to answering “yes”. It’s not really a bad film, just seriously flawed. (:’

  • Captain Genius

    a detective kung fu tournament film would totally work. plus, throw in black canary and bronze tiger and i’d blow my load

  • Stalkeye

    Now we’re really getting somewhere!!

  • Phillyflopper

    Oh yeah? Well they’ve got a CD rom attachment coming soon. XD

  • Wonder Woman wet dreams for everyone!

  • Dee

    Thanks Sir!

  • Captain Genius

    phantasy star 2

  • Captain Genius

    i should be illustrating fake movie trailers for this and a dazzler film

  • Turd Has Escaped The Gravy

    Small correction: “Justice League Part 1” is scheduled to be released in Nov. 2017, not 2018.

  • Dee

    okay, thank you!

  • Turd Has Escaped The Gravy

    Moore was the ne’er do well who switched the bullets that implicated Superman in the murder of the African terrorists. He planned to trace their sale back to Walmart and film it for his new agitprop doc, “Bowling for Columbine 2: The High Cost of Superheroes”.

  • Turd Has Escaped The Gravy

    The DCEU has nothing to worry about. They simply need to make a few adjustments – introducing a traditional Superman; adding some humor, or indeed any emotional dynamics at all apart from hyper-serious brooding; streamlining the convoluted exposition and confusing nods to the wider universe – and they’ll be fine. And, of course, next time making sure to pay off Harry Knowles and Kevin Smith well ahead of schedule, in large quantities of doughnuts, toys and pot, to ensure effusive praise and thus, great fanboy PR.

  • Dee

    Isn’t Smith defending the film now?

  • Dee

    No, he isn’t, mixed that up.

  • Turd Has Escaped The Gravy

    Is he? Lol – as with Harry Knowles, those “pwesents” must have gotten lost in the post!

  • Turd Has Escaped The Gravy

    No, you may be right. I don’t follow Smith closely and don’t care about his views, but I think I did hear something to that effect: at the very least, that he’d softened his opinion.

  • Stalkeye

    And lets not forget the horrific 32x, ya bastid! 😛

  • Phillyflopper

    Actually, I meant the SNES CD-ROM. I think you should just wait for the the Sega Neptune. xD

  • Stalkeye

    I’m not gonna lie, the Nep had one of the coolest looking designs for a game console. But the 32 WreX was a huge failure.
    http://www.infoconsolas.com/wp-content/uploads/Sega-Neptune.jpg

  • Phillyflopper

    Yeah, I sometimes found games I enjoyed on the Genesis. But when you have to pick one, the Nintendo characters overrule all for me. XD

  • Toruk_Makto

    Never really read letters to the editor. Was always more interested in the product than the artists/creator.

    Till this day I absolutely adore Chris Claremont’s run on the X-men. But I’d rather not know anything about the man. Might fuck-up all my good memories.

  • Stalkeye

    The Elementals had a interesting version of Thor.
    “A lot of them tried, a lot of them died”.
    http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_23164/subcat_48424/Thumbs/IMG_0495.JPG

    As for Claremont, I do know what he said to friends of mine who visited Marvel’s office back then and it aint flattering!

  • KilliK

    maybe he had a call from his pal Ben..

  • Vampire Hunter D(ee)
  • Zed

    He was having another Costner flashback, but Snyder forgot to shoot it.

  • Zed

    But did he break down crying with his dad in the parking lot?

  • Zed

    I have zero interest in what they’re doing with the Justice League (ending of BvS was idiotic), but Wonder Woman’s movie looks pretty good so far.

  • Vampire Hunter D(ee)

    Damn, did Harry write that? I cannot finish his reviews anymore.

  • Zed

    As Dad walked up to my car after the movie tonight, wiping tears away from his eyes he looked at me and said, “Ya know, I’m pretty sure that’s the best superhero movie ever made.” And I looked at him, same smile and the same tears – and I said, “I absolutely agree, Dad!”

    – Opening paragraph for his review of Man of Steel